Harland and Ryan were born on the same day 3 years apart. December 22. To celebrate they’re doing an episode on consciousness and how you, yes you, dont have it!! Happy birthday to us, eh? Eh…
They don’t know philosopher Keith Frankish’s birthday, but he doesn’t think you have consciousness either even if he doesnt say it explicitly. C’mon Keith!! It’s the Dawdler’s birthday!! Jerk.
Here’s deep birthday vibe dives into a piece Keith wrote about Illusionism and Consciousness.
-Dawds
00:00:00 The Great Silliness: Keith Frankish’s Consciousness as Illusion.
00:06:58 Provocative v. Defensible Claims, Definition of Consciousness, The Hard Problem
00:13:39 The Illusion Problem, Realist v. Illusionist Theories, Psychokinesis example
00:24:25 Phenomenal v. Access Consciousness, What-its-like-ness
00:28:36 Quasi-phenomenal properties, Penrose triangle & Operating System User Illusions
00:40:55 Representations, Interpretations, & Counting transductions
00:50:13 Zombies & What-its-like-type-II, How quasi-phenomenality works in illusionism
00:57:51 Arguments against Realism & for Illusionism, Epiphenomenalism & Occam
01:07:20 Qualia & the Alien Ashtrays, Objections to Illusionism considered
01:28:46 Illusionism v. Eliminativism, Harland’s Methodological Argument
01:39:57 Ryan’s Big Question: Why do people care about what they care about?
9 Comments
Julian sales · December 23, 2018 at 12:52 pm
I enjoyed that! And I agree with your conclusion. I reached the same conclusion from cognitive psychology and then read Dennet.
My initial interest in psychology began when ghosts and telepathy were in all the papers. When I figured out it wasn’t real I became fascinated in why people believe.
Adam · December 24, 2018 at 7:41 am
Where consciousness is concerned the very nature of the datum (qualia) is such that an ash tray cannot be brought back. It only exists subjectively. If it existed like an ash tray does there would not be any hard problem or illusion problem at all. To ask for concrete evidence of qualia is like asking you for concrete evidence that you are in pain before agreeing to stop stabbing you.
thedawdler · December 24, 2018 at 2:48 pm
What I [Ryan] didn’t say in the episode concerning the “Denying the Data” point is that–to at least scientists it appears–“The plural of anecdote is not data.” The only datum is the report. Anything beyond that is your apparent alien abduction “experience”. And even then a report needs to be systematically vetted before it can be analyzed properly with the minimum amount of bias we are capable of establishing (and there could be still a ton of bias). Saying “I am in pain” to me the human in front of you is a report I can then act upon by getting some form of therapy. But I think in a scientific context, saying “I am in pain” is equivalent to saying I was abducted by aliens. Ok, well, then next time you visit the Andromedan’s operating table, grab an ash tray. Next time you talk to God ask if you can record its voice. Next time you introspect bring back the redness of red or the painness of pain.
Tom Clark · December 26, 2018 at 9:42 pm
“Next time you introspect bring back the redness of red or the painness of pain.”
This suggests that you don’t think you feel pain since you can’t produce intersubjectively available evidence of that feeling. But do you not feel pain? And if you do, is it not qualitative – admitting of no further components in its basic feel? And is it not private, something you alone experience? If (as you seem to be saying) pain, red, sweet, etc.are neither qualitative nor private, how do you form the idea of subjective phenomenology in the first place such that you can deny its existence?
Julian sales · December 27, 2018 at 11:05 am
Perception of pain varies, depending on whether you are alone or not, the company you are with, and can be changed by how it’s viewed. To me this suggests that the self, constructed to feel like a continuous presence though probably fragmentary, has evolved for social purposes. To facilitate interaction with others.
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thedawdler · May 8, 2019 at 12:51 pm
glad you liked it